Uh Oh... MLS gauging interest in Baltimore for possible DC United move?
Some bad news for our friends back East as it looks like things are starting to get a little more serious about that whole D.C. United - Baltimore United fiasco.
Apparently MLS sent soccer fans located around DC and Baltimore a survey to gauge their interest in such a move, a move that I wholeheartedly disagree with.
That said, I do understand D.C. United's current dilemma so this might just be what ultimately happens.
Such a shame.
7 months ago
Geoff Gibson
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On its face, this looks like a survey about moving DC to Baltimore. If you read through the survey though, it gauges interest in several other teams including Dallas, Columbus and NE. Personally, I think NE is a fuckin train wreck, so anywhere but where they are now would be great in my opinion.
which is stupid. Why is NE not a team considered for a move?
They obviously are not succeeding there.
Someone throw me a Scooby Snack
Too bad for United supporters. But the club is not getting anywhere in DC and United can’t stay in RFK forever. They have to do what’s best for the club and the league. Good for Baltimore if it happens though.
When I'm bored I read your self-love on Twitter. I love the First World.
http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/soccer/post/_/id/13979/is-fc-dallas-a-candidate-to-be-moved
“Wait, FC Dallas? The other clubs are all in the Northeast area, why FC Dallas?
Well first, I suppose, is the not great attendance and apathetic fan base in Dallas. The stands do not lie.
But probably more importantly is the Hunt Sports Group desire to sell one of the two renaming franchises. MLS has always wanted one team per owner. The Hunts have always wanted just one team. I have to believe that’s why FC Dallas and the Columbus Crew are listed as potential answers in the survey. "
Could the metro area
support 2 teams? Somehow I doubt it but could be wrong.
Baltimore and DC can and do support separate teams. Even the behemoth NFL.
Baltimore is not considered the metro area of DC. Nor is DC of Baltimore.
Jag kom, jag såg, erövrade jag.
The US Census disagrees but you're functionally correct
They are separate cities (well, one city and one district, but you know) with separate identities, but for census purposes Baltimore/Washington/Northern Virginia are all considered one Combined Statistical Area. Either way, though, I’m not sure the area could support two MLS teams. NFL is the most popular sport in the country – if you put an NFL team in a 60,000 seat stadium in Beulah, ND it would still sell out every week.
by pdb on Nov 2, 2011 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Combined Statistical Area <> Metropolitan Statistical Area
Two different things. Baltimore has its own MSA, DC has its own MSA, but together they are considered a CSA.
When I write, I write for the Timbers. Contributing Editor of Stumptown Footy
by Andrew Wheeler on Nov 2, 2011 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Yup
but the overall point remains – DCU averages about 15,000 fans a game. If there were a second team in Baltimore in addition to DCU, I seriously doubt 15,000 Baltimoreans would fill that stadium in addition to 15,000 DCU supporters in Washington. If a new stadium gets built in DC, that 15,000 number would probably go up, but MLS as a sport just isn’t popular enough to support two teams in that metro area I don’t think.
by pdb on Nov 2, 2011 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions
But in shear numbers they can almost be like LA, Chicago or NY if you combine them.
That drive from Alexandria to DC is not as easy as you think. They’re distinctly separate in many ways.
Jag kom, jag såg, erövrade jag.
It has often been stated by DC fans the majority come from Northern Virginia
Move the roost to Baltimore, many fans disappear immediately. You’d basically would need a whole new set of fans. Thus any move to Baltimore would necessitate rebranding or the team will be DOA.
Started, relocate a franchise to Baltimore, I guarantee you both DC and Baltimore can get 20,000 fans if they get proper stadiums and engaged ownerships.
Jag kom, jag såg, erövrade jag.
I agree but merely having large population numbers does not automatically equal loads of soccer fans
As you say below, if you move DCU to Baltimore, “many fans disappear immediately”. I’m pretty sure that you’re right about that. But your scenario of having teams both in DC and in Baltimore seems to rely on a bunch of latent demand for DC-based soccer that I’m not seeing. if there were a ton of soccer fans in DC that couldn’t get to current DCU games, the fans that disappear from DC and head to Baltimore would be replaced by other DC-based fans just itching for their long-awaited chance to see a DC team, which isn’t really the issue. After all, it’s not like DCU’s problem is stadium capacity or people not being able to get tickets (they average that 15,000 people/year in a 46,000 seat stadium).
If a majority of current DCU fans – or even less than half of those fans – “disappear immediately” and decamp to Baltimore if DCU goes there, that tells me DC can’t/won’t really support a team if there’s one up the road in Baltimore. Engaged ownership is great, but if the demand isn’t there, it isn’t there.
(Brendannukah, if you’re anywhere near this thread, please chime in as I’d love to hear a DC fan’s perspective on this)
by pdb on Nov 2, 2011 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions
http://dcist.com/2011/11/yes_baltimores_very_serious_about_s.php
Sounds like leaving DC is leaving that perceived metro area. Not one of the comments offers a hypothetical that they will follow the team to Baltimore. Geographic proximity and US Census data do not trump prevailing notions of which area they belong to.
Jag kom, jag såg, erövrade jag.
But you offered that hypothetical, which is why I went the way I did with my comment
If that’s not true, that’s fine, but you said: It has often been stated by DC fans the majority come from Northern Virginia. Move the roost to Baltimore, many fans disappear immediately.
Whether you meant they would follow the team to Baltimore or just vanish entirely, your comment seemed to imply if the team moves the current fans move.
by pdb on Nov 4, 2011 6:52 AM PDT up reply actions
The whole notion sickens me
I’m not even a fan of a move to an actual suburb of DC, let alone one to Baltimore. It’s a completely different entity. Baltimore can be a decent soccer town (they can fill up M&T Stadium when a couple of top teams play a friendly there, but I’m sure many of the fans were from DC). They’ve had some lower division teams like Crystal Palace Baltimore that haven’t shown much of anything.
The most disheartening part has been the complete lack of concern the District has shown. I understand that money is tight, and that they’re gunshy after the debacle that building Nationals Park turned out to be, but there’s not even lip service towards wanting to keep hold of the team. For a team that wears “TRADITION” on its jersey, the idea of leaving DC is tantamount to death.
by Brendanukkah on Nov 3, 2011 10:07 PM PDT up reply actions
This may be a stupid question
but have they given any thought to renovating/downsizing RFK at all to make it more suitable?
by pdb on Nov 4, 2011 8:13 AM PDT up reply actions
RFK is owned by the Washington Convention and Sports Authority
They don’t want to spend the money to change it. It would be a significant cost to renovate the stadium. There’s also been suggestions of knocking the stadium down and building on top of it, or building a smaller soccer stadium on the parking lots, but every proposal gets shot down.
by Brendanukkah on Nov 4, 2011 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Did that Jail site idea ever come to anything?
Also, just out of curiosity, are the fans pushing for a SSS, or are you willing to share with other events/programs (Bowl Games, etc)?
Say what you want about America, thirteen bucks still gets you a hell of a lot of mice!
No idea in the District has really come to anything
The fans want a soccer specific stadium, but like so many of the stadiums, it could be used to host concerts and the like. I don’t think the size of what we’re looking for would be conducive to hosting bowl games (high school football, soccer, and lacrosse probably), but RFK already hosts the Military Bowl every year. And somehow, those yardlines seem to stay on the field forever.
I honestly think a team in Baltimore could be a real success
Especially if it is located in the right spot. But I think it makes a lot more sense to put a team in Baltimore in addition to a team in DC, preferably in a new stadium. It could be a great rivalry.
You’re right though, putting it in a suburb is a terrible idea. Nobody from DC wants to go to Loudon. Besides, looking at the most successful teams in terms of attendance, the common thread is location. Urban areas with access to public transit draw better. Loudon (or Fairfax, or McLean or whatever) United makes about as much sense as FC Frisco
Say what you want about America, thirteen bucks still gets you a hell of a lot of mice!
Virginia has made it plain time and again that they will NOT build a stadium.
And yes, traffic is such in the DC area that even something 20 miles away will take about an hour and a half to get to from downtown. The Maryland Soccerplex in Germantown (former home of the former Washington Freedom) serves as a good indicator. Rush hour traffic along I-270 (to say nothing of the Beltway beforehand) is pretty much impenetrable.
Someone from Springfield or Fairfax, VA has about 0 tendency to consider themselves affiliated
with Baltimore is most respects. CSA be damned.
Jag kom, jag såg, erövrade jag.
The only time I considered Baltimore was to fly out of there at ungodly hours.
Otherwise the drive would be an extra hour or two than if no traffic at all.
Jag kom, jag såg, erövrade jag.
you have now made five responses to one throwaway comment that doesn't really even relate to anything in particular
You must really hate Baltimore!
by pdb on Nov 2, 2011 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions
People from Virginia hate Maryland. People from Maryland hate Virginia.
People from DC hate going to either, but it is the hub of the area where all three groups can come together. Baltimore’s only about 30 miles away, but the cities are complete opposites.
by Brendanukkah on Nov 3, 2011 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions
My wife's Virginia sentiments have rubbed off on me.
Well, maybe hate is too strong a word.
Jag kom, jag såg, erövrade jag.
and really what is the point of asking what team they want?
Other than getting their roster to start with I would assume everything else is different. You would have new owners and a new name and new jerseys etc… The roster is going to change over soon enough anyhow so why guauge which team fans would want to get?
They question is, how likely would you watch a rebranded DC United team?
The other questions are gauging the likelihood of supporting a DC moved team over hypothetical others [it’s also a weird way of asking if you like Philly or NYRB over DC].
Jag kom, jag såg, erövrade jag.
I'd feel it'd have to be like Houston
If they move the team, it’s got to be a completely new team. That history’s not Baltimore’s, that tradition’s not Baltimore’s, and those trophies aren’t Baltimore’s. I would rather see my team defunct and dead than be anything other than DC United.
by Brendanukkah on Nov 3, 2011 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Yeah
It was bad enough seeing the Senators’ history go to Texas, of all places, taking the United name and history to Baltimore would pointlessly alienate a set of fans from MLS.
Say what you want about America, thirteen bucks still gets you a hell of a lot of mice!
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