Timbers vs Sounders: Is the Rivalry good for MLS?
by Ryan Gates on Nov 28, 2011 12:05 AM PST
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PrintGo to any article on the MLS site that has anything to do with the Seattle Sounders or the Portland Timbers and you will find back and forth snide comments from Seattle and Timbers fans. Even in the Goal of the Year and Save of the Year articles you had the constant bickering between the two fan bases. However every once in a while you get a comment that says something along the lines of "I am so tired of hearing about 'Portland this and Seattle that..' there are other teams in the MLS." Just like when ESPN tries to jam the Redsox vs Yankees down our throats and some people get "not again, I don't care about either of those two teams" attitude. Does the Seattle vs Portland rivalry help or hurt the MLS?*
*(I know there is a third team involved in this rivalry and I know both Seattle and Portland view the Vancouver Whitecaps as a rival, however both fan bases view the Whitecaps as a "friendly" rivalry not a bitter rival.)
Major League Soccer has been a niche sport for much of their existence but in the past 5 years it has slowly started to inch itself into the national spotlight. It first started with the signing of big name players, players whose name could be recognized by the casual fan. However that is not enough for MLS to continue to grow to really get into the national spotlight more often the product on the field has to continue to improve and the product in the stands has to too. The change in the stands revolves around 2 things, rivalries and supporters groups.
Here is a list of the top ten rivalries in sports that the Sports Dish put together a few years ago and I tend to agree with most of their assessments.
- Yankees vs Red Sox
- Michigan vs Ohio State
- North Carolina vs Duke
- Giants vs Dodgers (both in New York and in California)
- Chicago Bears vs Green Bay Packers
- Army vs Navy
- Barcelona vs Real Madrid
- LA Lakers vs Boston Celtics
- Montreal Canadiens vs Toronto Maple Leafs
- USC vs Notre Dame
If you look at that list all but 3 of the rivalries listed are regional rivalries. Regional rivalries are so much more intense because there is much more interaction between the fans of the teams. Duke and North Carolina are separated by 8 miles! Don Garber took a lot of flak for adjusting the schedule to an unbalanced schedule and putting more emphasis on regional competition but the reality is the change will help generate more interest in the MLS.
The University of Michigan conducted a study concerning rivalries and their role in driving interest in sports.Rivalries are all about creating a story that captures the mind of the fan and allows for a more heightened interest in the event. It the classic "good" vs "evil" relationship and through this relationship fans attracted to this familiar storyline.
So test how rivalries helped in "Increasing Fan Involvement in the Pursuit of the "Elusive Fan" the wanted to conduct a study that specifically looked at how having a "hero" or a "villian" and how those perceptions drove the fan experience.What they found was that having a team to cheer against was more statistically significant than having teams to cheer for. As they so eloquently put it:
Initial findings also suggest that attraction to a specific team or sporting event maybe heightened for fans with lower levels of involvement by focusing outwardly upon the competition, framing them as evil villains and a deterrent to the success of the home team.
In the end getting a new fan into the MLS can be accelerated with a rivalry. This makes rivalries are just as important as the product on the field. Rivalries are about connections and feelings. It is the checking or watching of your rivalries games and cheering for the other team. Or even if your team doesn't win on that day but your rival does it makes your day better. It is the bad feeling or euphoria that accompanies a loss/win over your rival. It is hating with every fiber of your being the Roger Levesque's of the other team.
So in a word Yes, the Seattle vs Portland rivalry is very good for the league. Since the inclusion of the Cascadia teams more emphasis has been put on rivalries by the Soccer Don, Don Garber, and rightly so. With the unbalanced schedule more rivalries will be showcased and allowed to grow just like it has here in the Pacific Northwest. In some ways having the rivalry between Portland and Seattle has turned the focus back on regional rivalries like Philly vs New York, San Jose vs Galaxy or Raids vs RSL.
Other fans of other teams in the MLS should get used to hearing about this Cascadia rivalry because it going to help MLS grow even farther. Don't like it? Sorry but it is here to stay, all I can say is for you to try and get your rivalry to the same level. If all teams got a rivalry on the same level as Portland vs Seattle than MLS would become a national talking point almost every weekend.
RCTID
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but the reality is the change will help generate more interest in the MLS.
…except in Texas, amirite?
2011 Colorado Avalanche - Dr. Jones can't suture this coaching wound.
The 2011 Buffalo Bills - Where we learn that signing a mediocre QB for 50+ Million dollars is just as good an idea as it sounds.
Burgundy Wave - SBnation's home for the Colorado Rapids
Crystal Palace FC - We'll take mid-table, thank you.
Nope, you aren't...
After the way Sounders fans have treated Dynamo fans as of late…
Viva La Timbers!
Also, we love Spencer, and we love Chabala. May you have a meteoric rise over the next couple of seasons and destroy the Cascadia Cup by just stealing it as your own. It’s just as good in Texas as in the Northwest.
-- "...I was sick, napping, and then woke up and came to the computer to read a note from the Gingered Angel of Doom..." Martek - Dynamo Theory Blog
Can you link to some of this Sounders/Dynamo drama?
Maybe I’m out of the loop, but I haven’t heard about any of it.
Some Sounder fans went on Dynamo Theory and said what everybody else in the league is saying
Certain people didn’t like it.
by chrisperry1983 on Nov 28, 2011 1:17 PM PST up reply actions
No way!
Flounders fans going on other supporters blogs and taunting the local fans? Total disbelief!
When I write, I write for the Timbers. Contributing Editor of Stumptown Footy
by Andrew Wheeler on Nov 28, 2011 1:34 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I for one, am shocked at the insinuation
Say what you want about America, thirteen bucks still gets you a hell of a lot of mice!
Sounders fans getting the heat from Houston folks when everybody is saying the same thing...
We must hold more clout.
by chrisperry1983 on Nov 28, 2011 1:48 PM PST up reply actions
Something like that....
Say what you want about America, thirteen bucks still gets you a hell of a lot of mice!
I'm not good at trash talking.
It all sounds so hokey to me.
by chrisperry1983 on Nov 28, 2011 2:11 PM PST up reply actions
What?
2011 Colorado Avalanche - Dr. Jones can't suture this coaching wound.
The 2011 Buffalo Bills - Where we learn that signing a mediocre QB for 50+ Million dollars is just as good an idea as it sounds.
Burgundy Wave - SBnation's home for the Colorado Rapids
Crystal Palace FC - We'll take mid-table, thank you.
by UZ on Nov 28, 2011 3:01 PM PST up reply actions
rivalries are good
really intense ones are great. No matter how awful a season is going your team can redeem itslef by dragging down the rival. Keeps interest more intense longer.
That said, if it goes like the boston LA thing in the NBA that will be a bad thing.
"What and how much had I lost by trying to do only what was expected of me instead of what I myself had wished to do?"
— Ralph Ellison (Invisible Man)
If I were a fan of a non-Portland or Seattle MLS team I would really be sick of the whole Cascadia thing by now
Think of how Blazer fans feel about always hearing about the Lakers, or how Rays fans (all three of them) feel about always hearing about the Yankees or Red Sox. The rivalry itself is great, but MLS needs to not ride that particular horse to death if it doesn’t want to alienate non-NW MLS fans. Grow other rivalries organically as much as possible and not by always comparing them to Cascadia – what we have up here is unique and can’t really be replicated.
I agree
Before Cascadia, it seemed to be all about NY vs LA, and to a large degree it still is. I got really sick of hearing about it. Before Sounders were in MLS, I liked watching and following DC. (Yes I followed and attended Sounders games while they were in USL, but I also followed MLS as well) but DC hardly seemed to get recognized despite the legacy they have. It was pretty annoying. I had no connection to DC, just decided to follow them since they were successful and I figured I should be paying attention to my home league.
by chrisperry1983 on Nov 28, 2011 1:13 PM PST up reply actions
You were one of the few
Who actually went to USL Sounders games?
Sorry I couldn’t resist…..
I followed RSL up until Portland got a team.
Contributing editor to Stumptown Footy the Portland Timbers SBN blog.
Ha
I knew I needed to preface with that.
I have no legitimate comeback though. Well played.
by chrisperry1983 on Nov 28, 2011 1:24 PM PST up reply actions
What is sad
Is the USL Sounders were a good team and played some pretty good soccer…..
Contributing editor to Stumptown Footy the Portland Timbers SBN blog.
I think it really was that threshold there is between minor and major league
I don’t think the explosion of fans is a bandwagon thing. I really think the soccer culture has been around forever in Seattle. But that minor league affiliation just turned people off. Portland definitely got it right in supporting regardless of the league they were in.
by chrisperry1983 on Nov 28, 2011 1:34 PM PST up reply actions
PDX
Well to be honest we only have “minor” league teams here so we think minor or major doesn’t matter just the name on the front of the jersey. Not saying either way is the right/wrong way just a different attitude because of the sports landscape in both cities.
Contributing editor to Stumptown Footy the Portland Timbers SBN blog.
Never really thought of it that way
But it makes sense.
by chrisperry1983 on Nov 28, 2011 2:14 PM PST up reply actions
Except them
But look at the Winterhawks following and the USL Timbers
Contributing editor to Stumptown Footy the Portland Timbers SBN blog.
They're the exception
I think what Ryan is getting at is that Portland doesnt have as many options, sports wise, as Seattle and their landscapes are not comparable. The USL Sounders had to compete with the NFL, major college football, (until recently) NBA, and MLB hence why they never drew large crowds.
Go banana!
by Disco_Stew on Nov 28, 2011 3:04 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I went to a ton of USL Sounders games when I lived in Seattle in the 90's
and I don’t think competition from other sports was the issue – USL of course played in the summer, and thus competed directly mostly/only with the Mariners at that point. I went to 10-15 USL games a year and rarely paid for a ticket, because people were handing out free tickets in front of Memorial Stadium.
I think Seattle is more conditioned to support professional teams than lower-league teams, because of all the options you mention – nobody really wanted to care about a minor league soccer team when they could see Pac-10 football/basketball, pro baseball, and (at the time) pro basketball. Now that the Sounders are pro, though, they’re more legit in the eyes of the ticket-buying Seattle fan.
Agreed
I enjoy going to minor league hockey games and have even seen the lacrosse team play, who are technically minor league, but I cant say I have as much passion for those teams. If PDX/SEA got NHL teams I imagine the interest in hockey would increase based on that simple fact.
Part of the reason for that (I think) is the marketing budget. The Sounders did a great job of getting butts in the seats and luckily the product spoke for itself and created fan retention. I respect that PDX was supporting their team in mass but the whole argument about USL/MLS fan bases comes off sounding pompus to me. Like when someone ridicules you for liking a band because they were listening to them before things got all ‘corporate and main stream.’
Go banana!
In fairness
The Sounders’ earlier records were their best work ;)
Say what you want about America, thirteen bucks still gets you a hell of a lot of mice!
Ok, I'll conceed that
In the end the PNW is the “best” region for soccer in the country. I’m just happy to be a part of it.
Go banana!
It is totally pompous and also completely pointless
I always hate that “we were here first” discussion. I had only been to about three Timbers games in my life prior to the Timbers going MLS, and now I’m a season ticket holder. I don’t believe that makes me any less of a fan.
by pdb on Nov 28, 2011 3:36 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
You might even be a "better" fan
because you don’t rub your superiority in everyone’s faces.
(don’t mean to stereotype, but I’ve had experiences with members of several supporters groups that look down on those not affiliated. All Cascadians included. )
The world is ending
Far too much agreement between us on this thread.
/insert vegan food cart joke/
Go banana!
Outside of MLS.com and other soccer specific sites, I think LAG/NYRB is still the main focus.
The national media still seem to think the LAG/NYRB is the big rivalry of the MLS, and the equivalent of baseball’s NY/Boston rivalry. Part of that obviously has to do with the size of the markets and that there are probably more people nationwide interested in watching David Beckham and Thierry Henry than there are people who want to watch Timbers v Sounders. For an average MLS fan who got the bulk of his/her information from FSC and ESPN, I’m pretty sure they’d be more sick of David Beckham right now than Portland-Seattle.
That’s not exactly the case on MLS.com, of course, where Portland, Seattle, and Vancouver fans all go to vote in their players’ mediocre goals and saves of the week. If all I knew about the MLS came from MLS.com, I’d be sick of us too.
When I write, I write for the Timbers. Contributing Editor of Stumptown Footy
by Andrew Wheeler on Nov 28, 2011 1:26 PM PST up reply actions
Yes, rivalries are good
Rivalries absolutely drive a sport. They always push the needle in terms of generating buzz, attention and intense performances. This is all great for any league.
That said, yes, I imagine from the outside looking in the “Cascadia Thing” probably annoys some other fans, but so what. If the chatter on message boards was about “your” rivalry (if you have one) you wouldn’t care. If you don’t have a rivalry: go get one. The “Old Leagues” of Europe are positively filled to the sky with local rivalries — I’m sure people in London probably get tired of listening to Liverpool v. Everton and ManU v. City smack talk, but they have their own darbies to think on.
If all goes well, at some point everyone in the MLS will have their own annoying fan base :)
Rivalries are great
The griping from fans about the attention the NW gets I think comes from folks who love and support there teams as well. The difference is the NW teams supporter groups get tons of attention because they are setting standards for support in the MLS.
If you look at the media coverage, especially neutral blog and the like. The attention is more on the football and less on the supporters and is much more balanced. I went to the MLSsoccer.com web site daily and felt the coverage was fair and balanced.
Rivalries will spur the league on to great success. Great atmosphere is what draws the fringe fans. This will help in areas where they struggle to sell out stadiums. NOT the problem in the NW.
It's easy enough to tune things out...
…I only ever watch ESPN for games, because I abhor their one story overload (Tebow, Favre, Tiger, LeBron, etc.). MLS fans can do similar and not feel like they’re missing much
What I do worry about is the fan interactive stuff on the official site. Perkins gets two SOY noms. Fredy gets third in GOY for nothing spectacular. If I am a fan of another team, at some point I just give up.
volatilelyle.com
by almost awesome on Nov 28, 2011 9:52 AM PST via mobile reply actions
That's exactly it
I am a baseball fan. I never, ever, EVER want to hear another word about the Yankee/Red Sox rivalry. Ever. I get it. They’re rivals. Yay. There’s 28 other teams in baseball, one of which was rude enough to be in the AL, not be the Yankees or Red Sox, and get to the World Series this year. And I imagine non-Cascadia soccer fans feel the same way about Portland and Seattle – last year was great because it was the first MLS year for both teams, but in the future I hope MLS dials it back a little bit and lets other rivalries grow and get more exposure.
It's not just Cascadia though, it's in some order
1. LAG
2. NYRB
3. LAG vs NYRB
4. Cascadia
5. USMNT players on MLS teams
6. Did you know Alex Morgan’s boyfriend is a Sounder
While I don’t like the unbalanced schedule overall, I am looking forward to the MLS hopefully developing deeper rivalries between clubs.
6. Did you know Alex Morgan’s boyfriend is a Sounder
He is?
The problem is that outside of Cascadia and a few others, most of MLS’ rivalries are really canned. I remember back on the east coast, they couldn’t decide what the rivalries even were. MLS brass would just switch them year to year depending on who was good. Eventually they just gave up, and that’s how we wound up with the “I-5” Rivalries. Can you feel the passion?
There are latent rivalries, but the east’s general weakness in recent years, the fact that New York is in New Jersey, and has mostly sucked, and the fact that DC has either dominated or been dominated have combined to really stunt their growth. As DC begins to bounce back, I expect we will see more, but MLS needs to either make up their minds, or get out of the way and let some drunk fans start something. Right now the eastern rivalries are like the eastern NBA divisions, ultimately no one cares whether Boston beats Washington, or New York beats Philly, despite what the NBA says. Rivalries are made when teams play for something that matters, and MLS has not done a good job raising the stakes, either through playoffs or scheduling. In this case, parity has not been its friend, as teams struggle to compete year to year, or dominate then fall off a cliff while all the other teams are terrible. Add to that MLS’ meddling, and the situation just gets worse.
I’m still hopeful, but it will be a few years before MLS has anything to show for their efforts, especially if New York continues to underachieve. Trust me, nothing breeds a rivalry like a drunk, cocky New Yorker showing up in another team’s stadium with something to brag about. Add to that Philadelphia’s Philadelphianess and in the future we should start to see more natural and heated rivalries there. Just so long as MLS scraps the I-5 thing and let’s these areas do their own unique thing.
The LAG-NY thing is a travesty, and MLS should drop it. Major media markets or no, NY and LA aren’t rivals in anything. Boston would make more sense. It can be a showpiece game with the biggest stars, but I would be shocked if it turned into a rivalry.
Long story short, MLS needs to stop meddling as much. It can set up showpiece games, but rivalries are natural, and need time to develop. And stakes, which is why the conference mixing in the playoffs was such a bad idea.
Say what you want about America, thirteen bucks still gets you a hell of a lot of mice!
Yep she's dating Servando Carrasco
Talk about being overshadowed…yikes
by chrisperry1983 on Nov 28, 2011 2:49 PM PST up reply actions
Yep
NY/LA is a rivalry only in the sense that NBC (and every major media outlet) have offices in both places so they need something to goose the office pool a bit. There’s no enmity there. NYRB/PHI should be a huge rivalry, as should NYRB/NE, but as of right now NY/LA is nothing, rivalry-wise.
The nature of the media beast means that NY and LA get the lion’s share of media attention in all sports, good or otherwise, but that doesn’t mean it’s a rivalry worth watching.
Nobody cares about the Red Bulls
Not even NY/NJ cares. MLS and TV peeps should stop presenting RBNY like they’re more important than they are. Promoting NJ like they’re a “big team” just because they’ve got a French DP or because it’s “New York” has diminishing returns when they play in front of a half-empty arena.
I love Portland because everyone here takes things so seriously, sort of.
by yepyou'reright on Nov 28, 2011 7:29 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions
the PDX-SEA rivalry is good for everyone...
…except Timbers fans, who get the short end of the stick since they, their team, and their city all suck.
Okay, seriously- I agree that overall, the rivalries are good. If I were an MLS fan in another city, though, I’d be a little tired of hearing about SEA-PDX.
I think the challenge and answer lies in other cities finding and building their own rivalries. MLS seems intent on doing this, sometimes, but also screwing it up at times (Dallas-Houston, anyone? Sorry, thanks to unbalanced schedule, they only play once some seasons. Nice job, MLS.)
Personally I have high hopes (and low expectations) for NBC taking over the broadcasts. If they can pimp the hell out of MLS, use the links between the main network and the cable sports network like ABC/ESPN does, and generally hype the shit out of MLS, we might have something in a few or several years.
by Blue Eyed Buddhist on Nov 28, 2011 9:56 AM PST via iPhone app reply actions
There is no rivalry. Only the Sounders.
We’ll talk when the Timbers make the playoffs!
The SAH Links Guy
Posted from my Mega-Yacht
by Dizzo on Nov 28, 2011 12:23 PM PST reply actions 33 recs
Hmmmm,
The Timbers have won as many playoff series as the Sounders, so I’m not really sure why that is a criteria for defining a rivalry. I would have thought that since Seattle invented soccer they’d figure out a way to rig some success in the MLS Cup like they have the Open Cup…
OK, how's about a little lower bar. . .
One playoff match? A winning record? How about one piece of silverware? I mean log slices are nice in the trophy case, but there’s so much more out there. How about one chant besides ‘PTFC?’
Seattle didn’t invent soccer- just perfected it. Just like Portland didn’t invent losing.
by 509er on Nov 28, 2011 12:49 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Did someone say something?
I can’t hear over the loudness of their godawfully ugly kits.
volatilelyle.com
by almost awesome on Nov 28, 2011 2:01 PM PST via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
And you wonder why everybody hates you guys.
by vitaminx on Nov 28, 2011 3:55 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Their, they're
I should be more concise with my dismay.
And the yacht thing, its funny that it started with an out of the blue presumably drunken statement quoted in the New York Times.
Jag kom, jag såg, erövrade jag.
Autocorrect does some interesting things from a phone
Makes me wish for an edit button or even a way to delete. I saw it as soon as it posted and kicked myself.
EDIT BUTTON!! OH YES!!!
Jag kom, jag såg, erövrade jag.
by Kejsare on Nov 29, 2011 1:29 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I wish I could blame it on autocorrect...
That has to be the first time I’ve made that mistake since grade school…
Run a custom version of Honeycomb and
you see some strange things occur. I get Rwanda a lot when I type really.
You mean the playoffs that the Sounders crashed out of in a really ugly fashion at the first hurdle?
Those playoffs?
by pdb on Nov 28, 2011 12:52 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Unfortunately, false equivalents.
More precisely, Log slices > Marching bands.
Jag kom, jag såg, erövrade jag.
Yeah
Marching bands is not even in the same universe as Chain saws and log slices….
Contributing editor to Stumptown Footy the Portland Timbers SBN blog.
I'm just seeing how much longer this Flounder keeps coming back to this well.
All other conversations have been delightfully civil save for Dizzo’s drive-by internet commenting and 509’s perpetuation of the mudslinging [not to mention the plethora of rec’s that comment received, indicating a subversive appeal to subscribe to Stumptown Footy as a Sounders fan].
Jag kom, jag såg, erövrade jag.
Hey, if it means Geoff can recruit a few more excellent writers
By all means, they should stop by. It’s not like they will have much to say here after we kick their ass on network television next year anyway ;)
Say what you want about America, thirteen bucks still gets you a hell of a lot of mice!
He asked for the Recs
Which goes against the whole rec idea…..
But hey we all know Sounder fans and how intelligent their arguments are….
Contributing editor to Stumptown Footy the Portland Timbers SBN blog.
For people who insist "there is no rivalry"
you sure don’t act like it, coming over to a Timbers blog and rubbing it in Timbers’ fans faces.
I’ve never seen people who say they don’t care and not mean it more than Sounders fans do, considering that, as you all love to point out, we’ve a. been dominated in recent years by your club and b. haven’t won anything in the major leagues. And yet we still get under your skin that much?
Must take a hell of an Army to do that.
It was satire
For the record, Dizzo posted this link at SaH to promote the discussion. The ‘we dont care’ thing goes both ways, there may not be any pity in the Rose City but there is a helluva lot of petty.
It’s the offseason. you’re mistaking ‘getting under our skin’ with ’let’s try to have some constructive discussion.’
Go banana!
Well, Wildflowers is a great album
And I don’t think we have to apologize for that.
volatilelyle.com
by almost awesome on Nov 28, 2011 4:28 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Seattle has good seafood
I love Portland because everyone here takes things so seriously, sort of.
by yepyou'reright on Nov 28, 2011 7:34 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions
I'd love to see more constructive discussion
and less “wah we’re better than you”, which is what I mostly see from you guys’ side year-round.
Granted, I don’t go over to Sounder at Heart, except for when I was following your team for the CONCACAF games and seeing how you guys were reacting to the game as it went along.
Rivalry shenanigans aside
I love the Sounders/Timbers rivalry. I’ve never been more excited to watch two games as those two. I wish I could’ve gone to the away leg in Portland, but the home leg was pretty awesome. And not to get mushy – but the way ECS and TA have worked together on things to make the rivalry the best it can be speaks volumes of the class of both groups. After the game up here we were out all night with Timbers fans, it was awesome. I love that the hate stays on for 90 minutes but after it’s all said and done, everybody has a beer and we’re all friends. Good times.
by chrisperry1983 on Nov 28, 2011 1:20 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
My concern with the extra matches is their unbalanced nature
Which could actually increase the rivalry aspect, as it increases the amount of stuff fans can complain about, but I’m not sure it is good overall. Part of the fun is how there was only one game at home, you had one shot. It’s what made losing hurt so much.
I still think they should just open up C-Link and let as many Timbers fans come as want to for the third game. Put them in a designated section if you must, but don’t restrict the numbers. It works great for both sides, the atmosphere would be great, both teams get their support, and Seattle makes a killing. Plus it doesn’t unduly unbalance things. At least not more than is necessary.
Say what you want about America, thirteen bucks still gets you a hell of a lot of mice!
I'm not looking forward to the dilution either
but really my big issue is only playing eastern teams once. That and that being in the east gives you a better chance statistically to get into the playoffs. I know the league is all about parity, but unfairly weakening a strong conference is crazy.
As for the Cascadia derby games I’m for the most part on the same page as you. Without having put a ton of thought and analysis into the idea, I agree that C-Link should be opened up for all. It is kind of unfair that the favor wouldn’t be able to be returned, but in general I think it’d be for the best.
by chrisperry1983 on Nov 28, 2011 1:46 PM PST up reply actions
I'm not sure the unbalanced charge is merited here
You guys take the third match, and the revenue that it entails (it means less to PDX, as the Timbers sell out regardless, but lack the ability to increase capacity to meet demand). In return, you don’t have quite the same home field advantage, by which I mean, C-Link basically sells out, and there are about a few thousand Timbers fans among the 60,000 who show up. Oh, the horror.
Think of it like a college rivalry game on a neutral field, sort of like Army Navy, except instead of a neutral field it’s a heavily pro Sounders crowd. And you don’t have to travel. And you get all of the revenue. If anyone would be sacrificing for the rivalry here, it would be Portland, but I think it would be worth it, because the atmosphere at that game (especially if it were at the end of the season) would be electric.
Say what you want about America, thirteen bucks still gets you a hell of a lot of mice!
by No Pity on Nov 28, 2011 1:53 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah I shouldn't have even mentioned that
I only brought it up to point out the argument is out there. For me it is more of an afterthought. I think it should be opened up to full capacity with unlimited tickets available for Timbers fans.
by chrisperry1983 on Nov 28, 2011 2:09 PM PST up reply actions
I didn't mean to sound harsh
I just wanted to clarify what I meant. I think it would be a great match, and would help dispel the ridiculous concepts of hooligans waiting to burn the city down that seems to color American perceptions of soccer.
Plus, most Seattle fans think this is some devious plot to undermine them, so I wanted to make it clear I wasn’t playing a trick or anything. I think it actually works in Seattle’s favor, while also giving Timbers fans a chance to support their team.
Say what you want about America, thirteen bucks still gets you a hell of a lot of mice!
Nah I didn't take it that way
Just wanted to make sure I was clear about my stance. I do think some worry about hooliganism is warranted, but not really to the extent that has been happening. Then again, I am certainly no expert in that area. More of a gut feeling to me.
by chrisperry1983 on Nov 28, 2011 2:49 PM PST up reply actions
If I'm reading you right, you're suggesting the Sounders host the 3rd match every year and open up CLink to everyone
If it were possible to have a neutral site game, it could be great. For example, give the South and West sections of the field to SSFC supporters and North and East to the Timbers and let them all sell out.
Based on the current MLS scheduling guidelines, the schedules for 2012 and 2013 are supposed to be linked so that by the end each Western team will have played 3 home and 3 away in conference and 1 home and away out of conference. Under these rules, that neutral site game at CLink would not be possible.
Sorry, I wasn't clear
It wouldn’t really be a a “neutral” site game, just one in which the strict restrictions on away support were relaxed to give it more that kind of atmosphere. For example: Seattle plays Portland at home, then travels to Portland, just like this year. Then, in September/October, it hosts Portland again, but lets Timbers fans purchase as many tickets as they would like (within designated sections, if necessary). It is still a home game for Seattle, but with a more competitive atmosphere. What they lose by allowing a few more opposing fans in, they gain through increased gate revenue and exposure. It’s not perfect, but its a roughly even trade overall. You’re right that it’s probably unworkable, but that would be my ideal scenario for the rivalry. They could probably do something similar for Vancouver, though it would be tougher. The other two games would be managed under the existing ticketing rules. It just helps rebalance what MLS unbalanced.
Say what you want about America, thirteen bucks still gets you a hell of a lot of mice!
Is there a long term solution to the seating crunch in PDX?
Can the current stadium get to 35k+ seats and is there enough demand to support it for non-Cascadia matches?
I’d love to see each club get 3 home Cascadia matches a year and be able to allow as many fans to travel as can make the trip. 10k PTFC fans and 50k Sounders fans in the CLink? Sign me up. 5K Sounders fans and 30k PTFC fans in PDX? Great.
Before Fire Codes
Civic Stadium Routinely held that many…..
Of course the MAC club has a huge say in the stands on the South Side.
Contributing editor to Stumptown Footy the Portland Timbers SBN blog.
No and probably no
The current stadium is maxed out on its site footprint and there’s really nowhere to expand it except across Morrison St, so the current capacity is about as much as they can have there. And Portland’s probably not going to fill a 40,000 seat stadium anyway, for a non-Cascadia game – 20K seems about right for the Portland market.
Given the choice between Seattle and Vancouver, I'd rather go to Vancouver
Nicer city.
Say what you want about America, thirteen bucks still gets you a hell of a lot of mice!
Point being, the game would be in the middle
Making it easy for Vancouver and Portland fans to go, and allowing for a maximum attendance.
Not to mention whatever Seattle fans would show up to cause a ruckus.
I'm totally in favor of Cascadia supporting Fifa's "5%" accommodation for away fans
That’d add up to about 3,000 visitors in Seattle, 1,000 in Portland and 2,200 in Vancouver.
If Portland finds the room for us, I’ll sure as hell support finding room for you all.
Seattle fans are more than welcome to trade in their yachts
For a membership at the MAC
Say what you want about America, thirteen bucks still gets you a hell of a lot of mice!
Agree 100%
as a sounders fan no less. I see no reason we should not welcome as many opposing ffans as possible.
Duke v. North Carolina is kinda complex
There is deep hate among the schools the four North Carolina Universities right on top of each other. UNC, NC State, Duke, and Wake Forest. UNC hates Duke most. Duke pretends UNC is beneath them, and they spend their time hating Ivy League schools their really wanted to get into but couldn’t. NC State despises UNC most. Real hate. Wake Forest hates everyone because they’re overpaying the most for their degree.
LOL
Awesome! I don’t know the complexities of the North Carolina rivalries but it sure feels like the Cascadia Rivalries.
Contributing editor to Stumptown Footy the Portland Timbers SBN blog.
They're all overpaying for their degrees now
I love Portland because everyone here takes things so seriously, sort of.
by yepyou'reright on Nov 28, 2011 7:40 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions
That's a low blow, m'man
I mean talking about my mother or my wife is one thing, hating on my side is one thing, but talking smack about my beer? Way out of bounds.
I’ll give you Deschutes Abyss, though. I mean, my god.
Deschutes is technically from Bend
so you can’t really give us them, unless you guys claim Yakima as Seattle. :)
Well, until MLS divides itself in to two 20-team leagues
Bend and Yakima won’t have their own teams, so they count.
If Bend counts
then Block 15 definitely counts for our side. Victory is ours.
When I write, I write for the Timbers. Contributing Editor of Stumptown Footy
by Andrew Wheeler on Nov 29, 2011 11:31 AM PST up reply actions
If we are going that route...
…just about anything from Boneyard pushes Bend into the tipping point for state victory. Damn, though, Walking Man might balance that out.
by stax o' wax on Nov 30, 2011 6:46 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions
Does Seattle get any beer brewed with yakima hops
Or does it have to be brewed in Yakima?
Does Feta cheese have to be made in Greece to be Feta cheese?
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4975895
Jag kom, jag såg, erövrade jag.
uh..
Yakima Gold is made in Penn. by Victory and I’m pretty sure that’s still considered a Penn. brew.
by stax o' wax on Nov 30, 2011 6:48 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions
Technically, Ninkasi is from Eugene.
And having said that, Elysian > McMenamins.
Many things are better than McMenamins
McM’s doesn’t even make my list of top 10 Portland brewers.
Lompoc > Elysian
Mcmennimans
Is to PDX beer as Ivar’s is to SEA seafood.
by stax o' wax on Nov 30, 2011 6:51 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions
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