UPDATED: Valencia Saga Comes to an End: Knee Surgery Out 6-12 Months
by Ryan Gates on Feb 3, 2012 10:54 AM PST
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PrintCheck for the update after the original post:
The silence has finally been broken and we finally know what all the secrecy was about. Jose Adolfo Valencia will be having knee surgery to repair damage cartilage in his left knee. The biggest reason this took so long to take care of was the fact that Santa Fe and Portland reworked the loan deal that brought Valencia to Portland as it is still unclear when and where the injury occurred.
The full press release:
The Portland Timbers today announced that forward Jose Adolfo Valencia will undergo surgery to repair damaged cartilage in his left knee. Valencia is expected to miss 6-12 months.
A recent MRI showed damaged cartilage to the surface of the femur in Valencia's knee. The surgery will be performed by Timbers Director of Medicine Dr. Jonathan E. Greenleaf at Sports Medicine Oregon on Monday.
While it is uncertain when Valencia, 20, sustained the injury, the Timbers and Valencia's former club, Colombian first-division side Independiente Santa Fe, have agreed to amended terms of the original loan agreement. Valencia's designation as a Young Designated Player was contingent upon the terms of the original loan agreement. The new loan agreement terms do not require him to count as a Young Designated Player this season. Valencia will remain with the Timbers on their Disabled List while rehabilitating from surgery and therefore not occupy a spot on the team's roster nor count as one of the team's international players.
"Our No. 1 priority is ensuring the long-term physical health of Jose," said Gavin Wilkinson, general manager of the Timbers. "We are pleased to have worked with his former club in Colombia on amended terms of his transfer, considering the circumstances. We are very committed to Jose as a person and as a player, and intend to return to the original terms of his transfer agreement when he returns to full health following rehabilitation."
Valencia, who was originally acquired from Independiente Santa Fe on Dec. 15, 2011, will conduct his rehabilitation with the team in Portland.
"We feel strongly about our long-term commitment to Jose and see him as a big part of the future success of this team," Wilkinson said.
Thoughts
The biggest eye-opener that comes out of all of this was the fact that it was a Loan deal and the fact that he will no longer be considered a DP, which means Portland can still go out and sign another DP. With Valencia out and not taking up an international spot the door is opened to sign 2 more internationals and most likely Songo'o will be one of those.
Not the worst case scenario but not the best either. Hoping for a speedy recovery and many goals for Valencia.
*Shout-out to Zaggy for having it first in the Fanshots
________________________________________
Update
Merritt Paulson sent out some clarifying tweets:
@JeremiahOshan no. "Loan" is purely a technicality until we opt to kick in purchase when/if he's fully recovered
And
if our drs and their drs conclude he is 100% recovered then we are obligated to move forward. we are confident
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I think the wording is a little misleading in the release
Merritt already had confirmed, and did so again today, we were never talking a loan with Sante Fe before, but an outright purchase, hence the DP tag. What I believe happened is we voided the sale and got them to loan him to us for a year with an option to purchase at a set price at the end of the year, allowing us to not be on the hook for his salary.
Per the 2011 MLS rules, http://www.mlssoccer.com/2011-mls-roster-rules
we are still responsible for his salary, and it counts against our cap, but he doesn’t count as an international or as a roster spot. Given that, it makes sense to try and push off the purchase one year and make this year a loan. He counts as a minimum salary against our cap, giving us more flexibility to sign someone else, but we retain the right to purchase him next year when he’s healthy.
However, assuming we believe he’ll return next year healthy, signing another DP would mean either that player is only here for a year in order to free up the spot for next year. I assume we’ll wait until this summer and see what his recovery is like before deciding whether to sign another DP player, rather than sign one and move them off after a year.
The biggest benefit to us is the increased international spot and roster spot. We know can sign an extra international guy without having to possibly look into a trade.
Your right
Most likely the transfer was re-worked so that it was a Loan with an option to buy. Also if the Timbers have a long term interest in him it makes sense for the Timbers to handle the procedure and the re-hab.
All in all not the best news but it could have turned out much worse for the Timbers.
Contributing editor to Stumptown Footy the Portland Timbers SBN blog.
Diego
I understand transfer fees are some of the most hidden parts of the club’s dealings, but why doesn’t the team pay off the rest of Diego’s transfer fee this year? It doesn’t seem like MP is averse to spending big money, wouldn’t paying off the full transfer fee this year allow for a lot more spending? With Diego’s salary under the DP threshold, that would free up the DP spot. Side question, what are the standards for amortizing transfer fees across contracts?
by 108easyregiment on Feb 3, 2012 11:31 AM PST up reply actions
Per MLS rules
I believe you are required to amortize the transfer fee over the length of the initial contract. You can use Allocation money to pay down the salary/fee to get it under the threshold, but that would be alot of allocation money. Chara, should he stay with the team and not earn a substantial pay increase, would not be a DP, possibly after this year, or the following one, assuming the contract follows typical MLS deals, but there is no way to get that done immediately.
thanks
Zaggy, you are a font of knowledge. Aspiring front office guy? ;)
HAHA
No, though sometimes I delusionally think I could be pretty decent at some of this stuff ;). More like obsessed fan-nerd who really wants to grow the fanbase. Besides, it would take too much time away from my other duties I do with the TA haha.
My Pride
Wants me to say, I knew that too!
Nice work Zaggy you contributions are helping to make this site the place to come for information and also great conversation on our favorite team. :)
Contributing editor to Stumptown Footy the Portland Timbers SBN blog.
Does that mean I don't think I am doing a great job?
Contributing editor to Stumptown Footy the Portland Timbers SBN blog.
They said no, but have reserved a few spots for sounders fans
by Kazper on Feb 3, 2012 11:48 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Only need 30,000
There numbers are inflated :)
by Kazper on Feb 3, 2012 11:50 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Thanks
Wasn’t trying to fish for a compliment just trying to give one :)
Contributing editor to Stumptown Footy the Portland Timbers SBN blog.
I got to agree... I think with posters like Zaggy we have some of the most informed fans
especially when it comes to the crazy MLS rules
I think Byzantine MLS rules
and the fact we soccer fans in America has a sense of failure we investigate the financial details more closely than other fanbases.
Jag kom, jag såg, erövrade jag.
VERY Interesting
John Strong just confirmed that Valencia won’t count against our salary cap at all this year, so apparently MLS changed the rules regarding players out for the year.
I might be off
But the way I read it is that Santa Fe is paying his salary this year, so he wouldn’t count against the cap, then the transfer begins this year.
Oklahoma State will beat LSU in the National Title game by more than 7 points.
Man we're really capitalizing on the shifty rules
volatilelyle.com
by almost awesome on Feb 3, 2012 6:02 PM PST up reply actions
It's about knowing how to exploit loopholes to your advantage
Means we have some very smart people in our FO, and we should be very thankful for that.
Blazers win!
Looks like lots of us were a bit off here
All the down time was probably for negotiations and not for testing for mysterious stuff.
volatilelyle.com
If the recovery is quick
they would need to find a way to activate him, no? If all international roster spots are taken when Valencia is removed from the disabled list some mid-season shuffling is in order. More likely than not he will not be playing this year. He may make a few reserve matches if they’re still scheduled that late in the season.
Jag kom, jag såg, erövrade jag.
Not sure
But I don’t think so, this is all it says on the MLS website:
A team with a player lost to a season-ending injury can replace that player on its roster, while remaining responsible for the full amount of the injured player’s salary. A player can be placed on the season-ending injury list once another player has been signed as a replacement (provided the team has budget space). International player limits still apply at the time a season-ending replacement is made (with the player being replaced not counting against those limits).
Contributing editor to Stumptown Footy the Portland Timbers SBN blog.
By putting him on the list
He’s done for the season, just like Zakuani was last year for the sounders. Even if it says 6 months, sure sounds like they are expecting it to take much much longer.
Short term rules state you must sit out at least 6 matches, so that means its possible for him to come back after that, but then we’d have to release a player/confirm to rules if he is activated. Guess we’ll know for sure if they sign another player we expect to actually play a bit.
I honestly feel if he had a good chance of coming back this year in any form, Sante Fe would be less likely to push the purchase out a year. I’m expecting him to be ready for next year’s camp.
Hoping Trencito has a full recovery!
For his sake, not for the Timbers. I’m thankful this frees up DP and int. spots for them, but that’s a secondary concern as his surgery and rehab will be the biggest concern. Glad the Timbers are taking care of him though and not cutting ties. Such a young, talented kid. Prayers for his health and hopeful return to PTFC.
no doubt
careful with your knees, portlanders
I'm a native Portlander, though I live across the river...
and I messed up my knee at indoor last night :(
Blazers win!
sorry, that sucks
…and i have a game tomorrow nite. these days, when i’m playing there aren’t 50-50 balls anymore, more like 20-80 balls (meaning, if you come in hard and really want it, you’re probably going to get it)
Anyone on Twitter
If you want to wish him well post send this:
@trencitoval Mejórese pronto!
It means Get well soon.
Contributing editor to Stumptown Footy the Portland Timbers SBN blog.
good thing the medicals were thorough
Clearly this wasn’t an obvious issue or he wouldn’t have trained that first day. I do recall someone saying that he appeared to be one of the least fit of the guys on the field, so perhaps that was a first clue…anyway, sort of a curious run of events that led to this.
Weren't there comments that day Valencia's training perfomance seemed off?
I seem to remember comments from those watching that first practice that it was noticed Valencia wasn’t quite keeping up with the other players at that first practice
Doing re-hab up here
I see pros and cons to that. It’s a hard enough adjustment, but when playing and training maybe no big deal. But sitting around being frustrated at your first ever big injury in an alien environment could well be even worse. Hopefully after the immediate work they’ll let him spend some of the time back home.
Could be a reason
Why Rincon is hanging around suddenly, especially given he doesn’t really appear to have near the same pedigree as a striker we’d be actually looking at.
FWIW
If any one wants to REALLY geek out, great expansive overview of cartilage injuries in knees
http://www.sportsinjurybulletin.com/archive/cartilage-injuries.html
MP says it isn’t a microfracture surgery (which, from all my pre-med classes before I went with my Econ/Finance degree) seems to make sense if the injury is to cartilage not between femur and tibia, but the “surface” of the femur. Plus it was diagnosed via an MRI, and again, no doctor, but if it was deep within the knee, it seems like that would be more difficult to detect.
It seems like there are quite a few treatments out there, though success rates seems varied. (i’m assuming they are going with the simpler, but less effective clean-out, given its not cartilage within the knee and I know microfracture is at LEAST a year recovery, but there seems to be other treatment options). Hopefully whatever happens works and we can see him out there soon
To add
Per GW, unless he’s REALLY playing it down, it sounds like its more a precautionary surgery to prevent a big issue with the cartiliage down the road. Sounds like a chunk or something was hanging/torn and they want to take it out surgically, rather than risk it ripping/causing a greater issue down the road. Seems very likely this isn’t too huge.
That's what cartilage issues are usually like
It may or may not be a problem, but the only way to know if it’s a problem is to keep running on it and see if something fractures. It’s like Schroedinger’s cat.
When I write, I write for the Timbers. Contributing Editor of Stumptown Footy
by Andrew Wheeler on Feb 3, 2012 3:45 PM PST up reply actions
If it was that simple
he wouldn’t get out for 6 months let alone a year.. Not that I’ve any medical background but following the game long enough and had enough (much older than him) team-mates who get loose chunks cleaned out. 3 months he’d be back.
At what level though?
Walking? Or playing in MLS? Most ligament tears take at least a year minimum to get back from. Ditto a microfracture. Most of the other treatments are more like 30 months. The fact they have as little as 6 months to a year means its less invasive than those surgeries, which leads me to believe it isn’t MAJOR. Its true they are taking it easy, but Gavin didn’t even 100% rule out his ability to play in games later this season (at the reserve level).
good news kinda?
considering the speculation that was going around this actually seems like relatively good news. good luck to Trencito. Can’t wait to see him on the field next year.
by Cruyff's Turn on Feb 3, 2012 12:43 PM PST via Android app reply actions
Love your Screen Name
with the re-worked deal it is a great deal better than it could have been.
Contributing editor to Stumptown Footy the Portland Timbers SBN blog.
Green Card
I wonder if the Timbers will/can start his green card process while he is rehabbing?
He will stay around during his rehab
so there is a great likelihood his green card will be in progress too.
Jag kom, jag såg, erövrade jag.
That's where I had my surgery ...
The people there are great and the surgery was successful. The real test will come with how well he rehabs. Rehab is arguably the more important part because it requires such discipline.
gotta say
I’ve been so impressed with the Timbers front office on the whole Valencia deal. With the exception of making us all wait longer than we wanted for news – which is more about us/me than them – I think they’ve played this just right. No speculative leaks, they waited to all the information was there and firmed up. And Gavin just did a great job describing the Timbers’ philosophy, in a way that puts the team, and the players, first. Very nice job.
I don't think
MP tweet a few days before trouble starting surfacing, then pretty much quarter truths, was good in anyway, and would have rather had them keep it a tad more professional, but today was very very good.
It seems like they changed their course, maybe they even learned something here
Previously it was ‘our investment’ this and ‘protect ourselves’ that and now it’s “Our No. 1 priority is ensuring the long-term physical health of Jose.”
So they corrected themselves nicely, and I bet next time it goes all the way through
volatilelyle.com
by almost awesome on Feb 3, 2012 6:10 PM PST up reply actions
But
I’m actually okay with MP and his tweets. He’s ‘just’ the owner. He’s not the one being paid to be a professional, like the Gavin the GM is. I’d rather have the engaged, excitable, communicative owner than the Paul Allen type. If Gavin or someone else on the payroll had done the tweets I’d be more upset about that.
Not just Gavin
but the Gavin.
:)
And yes, we have the most communicable owner in MLS. Unlike this guy.
Jag kom, jag såg, erövrade jag.
Correct decision?
Could we have backed out of this deal without financial loss, or was it already too late and a compromise had to be reached with his Colombian club? Unless they saw something special, like amazingly special. I might have reconsidered the whole thing and found a new talent?
Too quick to dump him
1) I don’t think this is even as serious as they have made it out to be. From reading about it this afternoon, it sounds like this is very very precautionary, that he MIGHT have developed problems. It sounds like a small tear that surgery should fix. Doing that kind of knee surgery does that someone out for awhile (see Renken, Zizzo, and those guys tore ligaments). If they thought this was really degenerative (sounds more like a contact injury of some kind), maybe, but this situation doesn’t read that way to me
2) Merritt has enough money that if we didn’t believe he was really something special, we would have cut bait and taken what hit we needed to.
3) 6’1 REALLY talented 20 year old strikers with size, speed and ball skills, don’t grow on trees. Sure, its possible we could have found someone else, but there is a reason other MLS clubs didn’t all go out and find a 20 year old DP striker this offseason, and it isn’t because a bunch of them are lazy.
Yes
The Timbers could have backed out of the deal since it was not disclosed that he was injured. Which is why it is now a loan deal and not an outright purchase. If he gets 100% healthy and has no lingering affects the Timbers will buy him for next year.
For those of you who follow the Blazers this is exactly like Elliott Williams who did not have any trouble with his knees but had a congenital defect that “could” have gotten worse and so the Blazers had him go through corrective surgery.
Contributing editor to Stumptown Footy the Portland Timbers SBN blog.
Pretty much
Though from the description, sounds like its more likely an impact injury than a congenital defect. So that’s a plus.
With E=Will they opted to do both knees as a precaution
They did the surgery first on the one they knew was damaged, and 6 weeks later did the surgery on his other knee.
Blazers win!
It is likely if they backed out there might've been some kind of damages that the Timbers could seek
and conversely Santa Fe as well under certain circumstances, or in other words the contract was breached and a suit was possible. Yeah, that’s recovering your financial payment so you break even, but it may not be that simple. There could be no financial loss unless there was some kind of agreement in the transfer. Arguably, in that scenario Santa Fe is saddled with damaged goods and finding another buyer may cause them to sue the Timbers. [OK, done thinking like a law student]
That’s too much work.
Jag kom, jag såg, erövrade jag.
Certain fmr Rookie of the Year we love haunting me on knee cartiliage injuries
I don’t know enough about knee joint anatomy to know what the difference is between what the loss of knee cartilage in Brandon Roy knees that ended Brandon Roy’s career was and other “less critical” injuries. I just know Brandon went from NBA All-Star capable of 50 point games to retired at 27 in one “successful” knee cartiliage surgery.
Never going feel anything but spooked about athletes w/ knee cartiliage problems/questions after Brandon’s knee cartiliage problems. Sorry, but I’m just being honest.
I was wondering the same
Hopefully it is not similar to Roy where he starts loosing cartilage. Any spurs fan will also be thinking about the woes of their captain Ledley King. Btw the name of the spurs SB Nation blog is “cartilage free captain”. Let’s hope stumptown footy will not have to change their name…
by jiro on Feb 3, 2012 7:02 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions
fwiw
Roy had several knee injuries prior to college even. he also had a congential predisposition to losing cartilage as well iirc. as long as its not congential (ie caused by genetics instead of an actual traumatic injury) we should be OK. cartilage appears to be worse than tearing a tendon but it seems he should make a full recovery from this.
by zaggy on Feb 3, 2012 7:28 PM PST via Android app up reply actions
Roy was All Star after all previous cartilage injuries and surgeries
It doesn’t change the basic fact Brandon Roy was performing at a such a high level Kevin Pritchard signed Brandon to a max contract with the knowledge of those previous injuries. I don’t remember anyone on the Blazers medical staff having a temper tantrum or holding their breath until they turned blue at a press conference trying to prevent Kevin Pritchard or the Blazer front office from signing Brandon to a max deal.
I’m afraid what this reveals is the doctors and therapists are less knowledgeable than they claim, and these situations are still a lot more crapshoot then they are willing to admit.
That's not accurate at all...
Kevin Pritchard signed Brandon to a max contract because that is what he was worth and every other team would have done the same. They knew the extent of prior injuries, and decided to take a chance on him. With that said, they got some great play out of him. Now the remainder of his contract is being payed by an insurance policy they took out on him. They are not exactly loosing on the situation, other than Brandon Roy not being able to play again.
Just to point out something
Brandon Roy had Meniscus problems not cartilage, while meniscus are also cartilage in this case it is not meniscus. The injury is the the cartilage on the end of the femur. If it was an injury to the cartilage on the end of the Tibia then yes this would be an injury similar to Roy’s.
The cartilage on the end of the femur is the articular cartilage which helps in the attachment of the patellar and free movement in the knee. For a more medical answer:
Articular cartilage – A complex tissue formed by several different layers of cells. It’s primary components are water, chondrocytes, proteoglycans and collagen. It is a firm, rubber like tissue that covers the end of the femur and tibia and back of the patella. This layer provides a slippery surface and allows for smooth and easy joint movement.
Contributing editor to Stumptown Footy the Portland Timbers SBN blog.
Roy's knee surgeries were specifically on his meniscus
The padding between the bones in his knee joints. They’re all gone now.
What Trencito has, from what I’ve been able to tell, is on his femur, some of the cartilage is damaged, but not (at the moment) in a major way, although it could later develop into something serious.
Blazers win!
Valencia tweets back
https://twitter.com/#!/trencitoval/status/165829801612034048
Gracias por su apoyo y sus buenas energias dios los bendiga a todos
Thanks for all your support and your good vibes, god bless you all
Awesome guy. Good to see we made an impression on him.
You should put up a fanpost with his twitter address and some nice spanish get well soon phrases !
Im sure more STF peeps will make him feel better about the situation.
by P Town Player on Feb 4, 2012 4:35 PM PST up reply actions
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