4-4-2: Spencer's formation of choice
by Ryan Gates on Feb 4, 2012 10:08 AM PST
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PrintThe season is just over a month away and the roster is almost completely set. Of course there is still the possibility of adding a few more pieces or dropping a few of the newer players. For the most part the Timbers have the core of their starting line-up signed. With all the changes to the roster will John Spencer go away from the 4-4-2 formation or will he go with a different formation?
*For arguments sake and based on what we have seen of Song'o I am going to act as if he has been signed.
4-4-2 Overview
For those not familiar with the numbers a 4-4-2 refers to the number of players in each position starting from the back with the defenders. In this case it would be 4 defenders, 4 midfielders and 2 forwards. See the picture after the jump for those visual learners, on a side note can you tell I am a teacher?
The reason a coach would use the 4-4-2 is because of the versatile. In the Timbers case it allows for the wings to join the attack but also to be covered by the fullbacks defensively. The biggest key to the 4-4-2 is the wings, they need to be both a good offensive player who can supply the centrally located forwards with balls in dangerous positions and a decent defensive player. This formation is most used formation in soccer worldwide.
How the Timbers use it
Portland uses the 4-4-2 in the exact way it was intended to be used by trying to attack down the wings. As you saw last year Zizzo and Alhassan were an integral part of the offense last year along with the fullbacks. The draw back to this formation is that the Timbers were so dependent on Zizzo and Alhassan to create their offense or at the very least to hit the final ball into the box.
Diego Chara was there as an outlet later for the wings but early in the season it was Captain Jack Jewsbury who was in the central play maker role. Combining this with Cooper's penchant to drift out wide and it created a stagnant offense that relied too much on the long ball and lacked possession. Hence the over-reliance on set-pieces to score early on.
Currently the Timbers' roster is more suited to play the 4-4-2 this year then last year. The changes are subtle but do improve the team in areas that needed to be improved. Just look at this possible starting line-up.
This formation allows for possession and some defensive chops on the wings. Alexander is as possession oriented as Alahassan but does not lack the defensive chops. Which relieves some of the pressure placed on the fullback, Mike Chabala in this formation, to cover for Alhassan and thus allowing him to get forward more frequently. This would than get our best crosser from the wings last year more involved in the offense.
Songo'o's addition, I really hope he gets signed, would be a major boost to possession as his passing skills and vision are better suited than any of the previous fullbacks. His addition also frees up Palmer and Wallace to play their more natural position of midfielder. With less "route one" attack there is less reliance on a target striker and more of a need for a striker who can find space in the box for the inevitable crosses. Kris Boyd is that striker as he loves to sit on the goal side hip of defenders and attack crosses or find open spaces for passes.
Defensively Hanyer Mosquera will add the defensive speed if he adjusts to the physical nature of MLS play. We all know what we will get with Brunner and his combination with the other CB's will continue the lower goals against average we saw from the Timbers in the second half of the year last year.
All of these changes from last year make Portland a more dangerous team going forward and add a little more team defense to combat the wing play of the other teams. There should be less kick and chase and a lot more possession which should be pleasing to the eye.
Ideally Portland would use a formation which gets the most out of the players strengths and limits their weaknesses. I am not sure the 4-4-2 is the best formation for this team but at least this year it looks like the Timbers are better suited to implement it. Andrew and William will be looking at the other two formations Portland used last year and how the Timbers will look using them this year.
What do you think of the 4-4-2 and what will the Timbers' line-ups look like?
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Has Songo'o ever played Defense though?
With Zizzo out, Songo’o is the only other protypical winger we have in camp that would see time this year, I’d be shocked if we moved him further from goal.
Opening day, id bet on a very similar roster to last year, with Nagbe and Alhassan as the wingers, and Palmer and Chabala as fullbacks. Palmer does play RB for the Jamaican NT, but was used mostly as a CM in Houston, I think with a full offseason to dedicate to that position, he’ll be more serviceable in that role. I think Songo’o is first off the bench and will eventually work his way into a starting role, and I’ll be honest, I don’t think Kalif is near as guarenteed to play each game as he was last year with players getting healthy and all the new depth we have. We MUST provide better service to Boyd and if Kalif plays like he did last year, I could see him getting benched for Songo’o or Wallace.
The biggest question mark to me is if/when Nagbe gets to move up front to partner with Boyd, which with kalif and Songo’o on the wings, should give us pretty good possession, but perhaps a touch less counter – ability.
by zaggy on Feb 4, 2012 10:38 AM PST via Android app reply actions
Yeah, Songo'o isn't a LB
Chewy is more serviceable at LB. Palmer at RB unless something changes between now and first kick. If Songo’o continues to impress and earns a spot on the team then it’s Zizzo, when healthy, who has his work cut out for him.
That's what she said.
by yepyou'reright on Feb 4, 2012 11:44 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
My bad there
Honestly don’t know what I was thinking putting Songo’o at the back…
Contributing editor to Stumptown Footy the Portland Timbers SBN blog.
Temporary Insanity
I figured you just got ’em mixed up.
That's what she said.
by yepyou'reright on Feb 4, 2012 5:46 PM PST up reply actions
I know...
… I got tired of Kalif’s assists too, what with him being a kid and all. Oh, and full of joy. No room for that in the starting 11.
Come on Timbers
Oh we love you so
We looove you so
So come oooooon Timbers!
Digs it
The great thing about new players and the 4-4-2 formation is that everyone should know this formation and utilize it easily… I like the use of Alexander for Possession sake and hope to see him more this year. Looks like the team is stacking up quite nice and I like our options.
Is songo’o a realesed player? meaning we could sign him at any time? possibly after our trip to california?
RCTID
Kalif
dudes got blazing speed and technical skills… Hes super young and needs to hone his passing and vision… But… you are correct… with Depth like this its going to be hard to make him a permanent starter….unless he really shows.
RCTID
Songo'o
Is not a defender, he’s a right sided mid. I haven’t even seen evidence of him playing on the left.
Alhassan
I really don’t see Alhassan not starting
Or Nagbe
But as mentioned, Nagbe looks good in the center. I bet he starts on the wing though. But if Songo’o and Alexander continue to look good, and if Perlaza doesn’t finish consistently again, then I wouldn’t be surprised to see Nagbe up top with Boyd. If Kalif plays like he did 1st half of last season, I just don’t see him not playing.
That's what she said.
by yepyou'reright on Feb 4, 2012 11:52 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
also
if they don’t start Alhassan for some reason then they it seems he could fetch a nice transfer, but i hope that doesn’t happen. =(
Nagbe
I’m just not a fan of pushing Nagbe out wide. He showed how good he is in a central role at the end of last year. He is the most creative player we have, and the player with the most upside. leaving him on the wing wastes his talents in my opinion.
I would put Nagbe in the hole behind Boyd or even swap out Jewsberry for Nagbe and have Diego sit back like he did at the beginning of the year. at least I would if we went with the 442.
by Cruyff's Turn on Feb 4, 2012 10:57 AM PST via Android app reply actions
Thank you!
I still don’t get why people insist Nagbe plays out wide..
The only thing I would change/take a look at, would be Nagbe up top instead of Perlaza. He’s said on multiple occasions that his preferred position is forward, and that would free up a spot in the midfield, which is where most of our talent it.
White Gold in the house!
by Portland Love on Feb 4, 2012 11:00 AM PST up reply actions
I agree
you are definitely not alone in wanting to see Nagbe forward….I favor the perlaza slot as I also really liked Chara up with jewsbury behind him
"What and how much had I lost by trying to do only what was expected of me instead of what I myself had wished to do?"
— Ralph Ellison (Invisible Man)
Spenny said if D wants to play up top then he's gotta score goals,
and by all accounts he has been doing just that in camp. I think Spenny has given D the full opportunity to challenge Jorge for the spot next to Boyd, and I think he’s gonna win it.
Come on Timbers
Oh we love you so
We looove you so
So come oooooon Timbers!
Dude! Sweet!
i agree completely. in my opinion the kid is special. spencer has even acknowledged that he is leaps and bounds better technically than anyone else on the team. I don’t think you can pigeonhole him as a winger or a forward, or even as a central midfield. and kalif is almost equally as comfortable as a ball at his feet playmaker. i think a flat 4-4-2 focusing on wide play is lazy thinking (or stubbornness) by spencer. he’s gotta get nagbe (and kalif to a lesser extent) in positions where they can attract defenders and make a final through ball pass to boyd/perlaza. push in down the wings and cross in a flat 4-4-2 does not play to our two best players (sans boyd).
but i agree with the article writer that all signs point to a flat 4-4-2
by #1 Leverage Fan on Feb 4, 2012 2:43 PM PST up reply actions
Maybe this partly explains why he bounced around a bit
Youthful exuberance and showboating. If he has matured and has become a more complete footballer we could have a good find on our hands, provided he continues to impress in training and pre-seaon games.
That's what she said.
by yepyou'reright on Feb 4, 2012 6:13 PM PST up reply actions
Oops
My mistake there putting Songo’o on the left.I don’t know what I was thinking. Well at least it got you to comment :)
Contributing editor to Stumptown Footy the Portland Timbers SBN blog.
songo...oh...
Why is songo’o so impressive yet he was released from Real Zaragoza? its a little weird to me… i just dont see how he got to the timbers field…
RCTID
this is mls
mid table la liga rejects will shine here, especially from a technical skill aspect
by #1 Leverage Fan on Feb 4, 2012 2:46 PM PST up reply actions
Hi Yall, Ive been lurking for a while since my last comment
but this topic requires me to chime in. Kalif will play left wing because he is our only left winger! And no one wants to say this but Nagbe needs to play next to boyd with perlazza sitting or next to Chara with the captain sitting. I would prefer to play him in attacking CM because he is our best central ball holder and our best and or most creative player that can make something happen in traffic. Basically he is our only player that can hold the ball in the center of the field and attack from that position. It appears Jewsbury will be starting from the coaches comments but I think it is only because of his leadership abilities. Chara and Nagbe are not ready to lead the team and chemistry is important. I think attacking mid is the most important position on the field and your best player should play in this position .
Welcome to the party! I see you've already got your nametag, excellent!
Grab a drink, socialize a bit, we’ve got hookers and blow in the basement, and yeah… Glad you’re here, and make sure to have a good time!
But, seriously, welcome to the site, and hope you stick around for a bit and let us know what’s going through your head! (Hookers and blow is a TA joke, can’t remember which section it sprung from though)
Blazers win!
Where to place Darlington?
There needs to be better defense from the wings before I’d be comfortable sitting Jack. Chara and Jack are both box-to-box mids and slotting Nagbe in there will force Chara to carry the defensive duties.
And Nagbe isn’t going to start up top until he scores some goals. He has potential and good control but he hasn’t proven he can beat the defense.
Heres a good question to make my point.
If you had to sit either Perlaza or Jewsbury with knowledge of our roster, which one would you choose? I choose Jewsbury without hesitation. with that said I love captain jack and the leadership he has brought to this young team.
Really good job here guys!
This is the go to site for the best Timbers info!
Chara would shine as a D Mid in my opinion.
He closes out on opponents faster than any other player on our team and he tackles more and more cleanly than any other player in the league! I repeat the league. does that sound like a attacking player to you? Yes he can attack when the opportunity arises as should any midfielder regardless of field orientation.
He's the closest thing we have to a box-to-box mid
Although he does have a great defensive mind and reads the opposition very well, and of course he’s ridiculously fast, but he’s not a holding midfielder the way most defensive midfielders are. He’s almost like a winger that plays in the middle.
When I write, I write for the Timbers. Contributing Editor of Stumptown Footy
by Andrew Wheeler on Feb 4, 2012 3:42 PM PST up reply actions
when he played deep early last year
with jack playing more advanced, he didn’t look near as good as he did playing further forward. The problem is he’s not big enough to sit right on top of the CBs, and his biggest strength is his ability to disrupt passing through his excellent ability to read passes and then turn the burners on and starting the counter. Nagbe could excel in a CM role, but needs a guy more like Marcelin back there that will really be an enforcer in the back. in my mind Nagbe and Chara just doesn’t have enough defense in it. Nagbe as a withdrawn striker is a different story, but right now Perlaza is more dangerous than the next option in wide midfield.
by zaggy on Feb 4, 2012 7:05 PM PST via Android app up reply actions
oh i dont know
you dont need to necessarily be big to play dm, chara is a little bulldog and i think he could very good there in a gattuso sort of way.
the whole chara thing is interesting to me. its almost as if the club misscouted him. when the rumors first started the rumored player (which ended up being chara) was supposedly a playmaking type CM/AM. then he got here and he wasn’t that leaving us with 3 capable DM’s and no true ball control possession or playmaking AM style midfielders. unfortunately the club did nothing to rectify this hole in the offseason
by #1 Leverage Fan on Feb 4, 2012 11:27 PM PST up reply actions
He never ever was a AM
Always played behind a typical wheel in Colombia, but did always posses great stamina, better than average passing, and a great read for the game. I still don’t think it plays to his strengths to have him sitting on top of the centerbacks without much space to use his real skills and forcing him to play more physical than he has shown he’s good at (not to say he can’t bump guys, but he’s way better at intercepting passes than pushing a guy off the ball)
by zaggy on Feb 4, 2012 11:46 PM PST via Android app up reply actions
my rant is over:)
Love to hear your thoughts on my comments.
We dont need a holding midfielder with a stronger back line.
Just good communication and awareness between Chara and Nagbe to make sure only one goes forward at a time. This fluidity would help us not to be so predictable as well. i believe Chara and Nagbe both have the soccer IQ to accomplish this with some practice.
Holding midfielders are for teams that dont trust there back line.
We were this team in the beginning and for most of the season last year but we are stronger this year.
this is not true
plenty of teams with outstanding back lines use a defensive mid, milan played with a holding mid for decades and had an excellent back line, blanket statements like this are dangerous, especially if not a worldwide student/historian of the game
by #1 Leverage Fan on Feb 4, 2012 10:45 PM PST up reply actions
Defensive mid requires winning a lot of head balls.
I don’t see Chara in this position. I think he’s better as attacking mid working with the wingers to move the ball into the box.
For boot ball
which clearly did not work for us last season. Most midfielders are the shortest guys on the field in almost every league around the world. play the ball to there feet and there will be no problem.
by P Town Player on Feb 4, 2012 4:12 PM PST up reply actions
His weakness in the air
is more than made up by his ability to close out on players and hold the ball in traffic. Chara always looked to move the ball forward when he received the outlet pass from the D. The D mid should pass the ball forward and the Attacking mid should TAKE the ball forward.
by P Town Player on Feb 4, 2012 4:16 PM PST up reply actions
exactly
His weakness is in the air. Which is a major disadvantage when playing against teams that are just going route one soccer, i.e. most of the league. if the other team knows that 50-50 balls in that area are more like 30-70 you can bet they are going to just hoof it in there and take those odds.
not true
some of hte best defensive mids in history have been of smaller stature
by #1 Leverage Fan on Feb 4, 2012 10:46 PM PST up reply actions
This is why I feel Jewsbury will have to be moved to the bench sometime this season.
The only thing he can do is cover guys in the middle of the field. He always passed the ball right back to the defense when he recieved a pass from the back line. He wouldnt even look for a pass most times just one touch it back to the D. His skill set is not wide enough for spencers 4 4 2 to work in my opinion. His leadership is the best the team has until another player takes the reigns. I hope Boyd will yell at players when they mess up and show his emotions to his teamates more than Jack did last season. Brunner started to take on this role late last season as he was clearly the guy giving orders on our half of the field.
Don't see Nagbe as CAM in a 4-4-2
4-4-2 is built for FB and wingers to attack up the sides, leaving 2 box to box CMs shoring up the middle. You don’t see too many teams rocking the 442 with a classic number 10 as center mid – you’re just left too vulnerable in the modern game. Zinidine had 2 Dmids tucked in behind him… Messi has 2 box to box mids behind him… the usmnt usually goes with 2 dmids…
I just don’t see Nagbe fitting in as a CAM unless there’s both a Marcelin and Chara sitting in behind him. See him more as a withdrawn striker or a wide midfielder with freedom to roam centrally.
I agree with Nagbe as a withdrawn forward but think he would still be better as a cam than a winger.
And you agree with me about Jewsbury as you recomended Chara and Marcelin behind him not chara and Jewsbury.
by P Town Player on Feb 4, 2012 4:54 PM PST up reply actions
Marcelin
Marcelin is intriguing. when he has played well, like against LAG, he seems like a natural starter with Chara in the middle. the two of them pass well, run hard, and wreck people when it is called for.
Has Marcelin made a jump up in consistency and decision making? when he was bad, he was pretty bad.
I hope Spenny tries a Marcelin/Chara central midfield with Nagbe tucked in behind Boyd up front at least a little.
Maybe we can experiment with this in early rounds of the US Open Cup?
by Cruyff's Turn on Feb 4, 2012 5:18 PM PST via Android app up reply actions
I could also see a 4-2-3-1 working pretty well with the players we have
Nagbe seems to be ideally suited for the middle of the “3”.
by Shoot the Moon on Feb 4, 2012 4:59 PM PST up reply actions
Nice suggestion!
I think that is a great formation with the players we have and Nagbe playing as the center “3” line and wings on either side with Boyd up top. That leaves Perlaza out of the starting 11 but i think it makes the team much better.
by P Town Player on Feb 4, 2012 5:02 PM PST up reply actions
This formation can also be called a 4-2-1-3
If the wingers stay forward
by P Town Player on Feb 4, 2012 5:04 PM PST up reply actions
Andrew and William
Will get into the 4-5-1 and 4-3-3 in the next to pieces in this series.
Contributing editor to Stumptown Footy the Portland Timbers SBN blog.
it should be noted
Boyd has quit the Scotland team for teams going away from a 442 and all the comments he’s made about not fitting in with the team and disliking his role has been when coaches have made him play as a 9 with drawn guys around him. given our investment in him id be shocked if we don’t play exactly the way he wants to or the way that will make him most successful. that means pairing him with a second striker that does all the running.
by zaggy on Feb 4, 2012 7:14 PM PST via Android app up reply actions
Absolutely
Boyd needs a “water carrier”, another forward who will do all the running to set him up. Perlaza has the running part down, but I am not quite sold on the passing. Hopefully the injury he was carrying last season was the main culprit and being injury free, adjusted to the league, and comfortable on the team will allow him to flourish.
That being said, Nagbe has a chance to absolutely sparkle in that role. He can be the creative force, running at people, making havoc in the box and Boyd can poach goals. This is perhaps my top choice, but it seems Spencer plans to stick with Perlaza.
I love how many options we have, all good!
But Spenny seems content on going 4-4-2 with Jewsbury in the middle.
Its is probably the formation with the least risk involved since it is clear where players should be and the main formation our core players covered last year. I think its a safe bet to start the season with this formation but I hope it evolves into a more fluid formation as players get more comfortable with one another.
I wonder how jack would compare to Palmer at rb
volatilelyle.com
by almost awesome on Feb 4, 2012 7:07 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Its an option
he played there for kc on occasion.
by zaggy on Feb 4, 2012 7:15 PM PST via Android app up reply actions
this is actually a good idea
the ole javier zanetti solution, got a great leader but he’s been overcome by teammates at his traditional position…move him to rb and have him keep the armband
by #1 Leverage Fan on Feb 4, 2012 10:51 PM PST up reply actions
Nagbe stays wide!!
Look, with a young team like this, we need our best 11 on the field. Period! That means that Perlaza and Boyd need to be up top, Kalif and Nagbe on the wings, Chara and Jewsbury in the middle, Wallace/Mosquera/Brunner/Chabala. In my opinion, alexander may even be in front of Kalif this season. The best players need to be on the field. We can’t bench Jewsbury. He needs to be on the field.
except...
its difficult to say whether your 11 are our best 11, i highly doubt we’ll see mosquera start over futty initially, and obviously palmer is better than wallace or spencer wouldn’t have played him all last year, and imo marcellin is better than jewsbury
by #1 Leverage Fan on Feb 4, 2012 10:55 PM PST up reply actions
while Marcelin
plays the Dmid role alot more traditionally, and how we as fans like to see it played, he has never shown game in /game out consistentcy, which is something you do get out of jack.
its the same situation with Chabala and Wallace. Wallace is probably the more talented, and even better suited for the way Spencer seems to want the fullbacks to play, but hes totally inconsistent, leading to Spencer trusting Chabala.
if we see either player get more consistent, then I think we’re more likely to see them move into the starting lineup. we also need someone decent at fks and corner kicks to be even more at ease about possibly benching jewsbury.
by zaggy on Feb 4, 2012 11:52 PM PST via Android app up reply actions
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